Azure Jane Lunatic (Azz) 🌺 (
azurelunatic) wrote2008-08-19 10:58 am
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A list of "Woman Laws", likely made in response to "Man Laws", and why some of them piss me off.
So someone, sometime, posted these, probably as something from an email forward. I read through them, agreeing on some fronts and genuinely appalled on others. They're presented here, with some very minor spelling corrections, and a lot of commentary. I'd been meaning to do this for goodness knows how long; they were probably migrated over from the laptop; last night with my NIC and the router not talking to each other was the ideal time.
1) Thou shall never cater to a man’s every single need. We are not slaves.
Check. He's not a slave either, though. And if it genuinely pleases you to fill the needs of a partner, knock yourself out, but it had better be a nice and healthy partnership where your needs are getting filled too.
2) Women may not drive on a date, unless the man doesn’t have a car.
Bullshit. However, unless transportation is dreadfully impractical, it is nice to have one party pick the other up. The person organizing the event is typically responsible for the transportation. And in the US dating world, that's ... typically the man. Yay.
3) Chocolate is not a cure-all for your problems.
Check.
4) Ben and Jerry’s can’t fix problems, either.
Check.
5) Just because you’re in a relationship, doesn’t mean the man is committed.
Check, omg. And just because he wants to be in a relationship with you does not mean you should commit yourself.
6) Cosmo = fun to read, but not necessary.
Check. Though I'll give it a pass on the "fun to read" sometimes.
7) Bad breath = no tongue.
Check.
8) Pink is NOT a necessity. In fact, pink sucks.
Not necessary, but sometimes fun.
9) Glitter is okay in extreme moderation. Rhinestones and sequins are SERIOUSLY overdoing it.
You have to be able to carry it off, or you'll look like a drag queen.
10) You don’t have to do your hair or makeup every day.
Check. Basic-self care is necessary. A fancy hairstyle and makeup are not. (I don't count stuff like sunscreen and lip balm as "makeup", because that's in the basic self-care department. Cracked lips are not made of win.
11) A hoodie, sweatpants, and pony-tail are completely acceptable EVERY DAY.
Check. Your workplace's dress code may disagree, obviously, but your house doesn't have a dress code.
12) It’s nice for men to open doors for you, but you have arms. You can’t expect men to do everything for you. No wonder some men think women are subservient . . . it’s because most women want everything done for them.
I don't follow the logic here, but yes, you have the right and the responsibility to take care of yourself. If you defer to someone else, they may think that they have a right to dictate your actions or opinions if it happens too much. If you want someone to do things for you all the time, they may claim that means you owe them.
13) Don’t lie to a friend about how she looks in a new outfit.
That doesn't mean telling her "Your taste sucks", but it does mean saying, "I'm sorry, that doesn't flatter you, and I would recommend against wearing it in public. Ever."
14) Confidence is sexy.
Yes.
15) A skirt’s too short if you can’t bend over without showing way too much. And leggings are NOT acceptable to wear in public. No one wants to see that much of your body.
I'm not going to argue on the skirt issue, but I'd say that leggings are athletic wear, and should be kept to that.
16) PMS is NOT an excuse to be bitchy. You can still be nice during that time of the month, jeez.
If you can't be nice during PMS, you should either see your doctor if there's genuinely no reason other than PMS for you to be snapping, or you should address the issues that are bothering you while you're PMSing, because I guarantee you that they're bothering you when you're not PMSing, just at a lower level.
17) Singing in your car is completely acceptable.
And at home, and a whole lot of other places. The world needs more music.
18) Women don’t always get the last word in an argument, unless they really wanna piss someone off.
...?
19) Thou shall date any man you please, regardless of age.
(You and he should both be legal, for crying the heck out loud.)
20) Don’t overpack for anything like most women do.
...This generalization makes me sneeze. But if those around you say you're overpacking, you probably are.
21) Life is not about trying to beat men at everything.
... This also makes me sneeze. Life is about doing your own personal best in fields that matter to you, and fuck 'em if they say that women don't belong there. (Er. The men's bathroom is probably off-limits.)
22) Playing hard to get is discouraging to men. If you like them, let them know it and don’t make it hard on them.
Playing hard-to-get screws things up for women who are genuinely not interested in a guy. If you like them, acknowledge it, set sane boundaries, don't let them push you farther then you're willing to go, and re-negotiate if things change. Extending false hope when you're really not interested also screws things up for people. Stop it.
23) Know your limit when drinking alcohol.
Check. Experiment with your limits in private (with good friends) before drinking in public.
24) Women shall not chew tobacco.
Men shall not either. Ew.
25) When drunk, it’s not okay to have sex with someone if you don’t at least know some basics about them. Like their name, for starters. The old “how do I spell your name” trick to find out their name is NOT acceptable.
That goes for men too. And actually, it helps when you're not drunk too.
26) Never lower your standards or compromise yourself to please others. EVER.
Check. Although you should have a handle on what realistic standards are, and if your standards are unrealistic, I don't want to hear you whining if they're not being met. Also, meeting things like a workplace dress code had better not be "compromising yourself", because what you wear had better not be so vital to who you are that you cannot wear something else without being "compromised".
27) Always have a spare tampon. You or a friend may need it.
Check. Spare painkillers don't hurt either.
28) Size REALLY doesn’t matter, it’s all in how you use it.
And your tongue, and your hands, and whatever handy toys you may happen to have lying around.
29) Shopping is NOT a valid excuse for frivolous spending of yours or your boyfriend’s/spouse’s money. Seriously, get over your “addiction” and learn to be smart about your money. No wonder men think we’re high-maintenance and materialistic.
...ok, I'm glad I don't live in the same social group as the person who wrote these.
30) Never date a guy who wears girl pants.
Oh, fuck that. However, dating a guy whose fashion sense appalls you and makes you want to run screaming is really not a good plan.
31) Going to the bathroom is NOT an acceptable way to ditch a bad date.
To regroup and strategize during, yes. To abandon the date, no. Have an exit strategy in mind, let him know that this really isn't working out, and then ditch. Sends a clearer message, especially if he's being a dick. If you're worried about him making a scene, get someone to walk out with you.
32) Laugh at another woman with TP stuck to her shoe. You don’t have to tell them about it. They are adults and can check their feet before leaving.
Don't worry, we won't tell you when your bra strap is showing or your fly is unzipped either. christ. Letting someone else wander around looking stupid isn't necessarily your personal responsibility to fix, but it helps you be a worthwhile human if you let them know.
33) You CAN date someone with no car.
You can.
34) What happens on girls night is fair game to tell others if it was funny/humiliating in any way. Share the wealth.
If you're a backstabbing baggage who tells other people about stuff that happened in private that they wouldn't want shared, be prepared for others to return the favor to you. Man or woman. However, select bits of private events are fun to share, provided that sharing it wouldn't piss off anyone present.
35) You don’t have to redecorate your place every five minutes. And if you live with a guy, don’t make the place too feminine or you deserve to be slapped.
... ?! Look, decorating is fun, but it's possible to go overboard, and decorating is not a necessity. If it's not livable, you don't deserve to be slapped, but no one may want to actually live with you. Show some courtesy.
36) Friends come before guys, unless you’re married/engaged/something of that sort.
Friends of any gender come before potential dating partners of any gender. A serious, long-term relationship should be sufficient to trump many friendship priorities -- if it's not, you should really reconsider.
37) If a woman dates a man who is “not up to par,” laugh at her mistake.
OK, look. You don't owe me any special loyalty because we share a gender, although sympathy and a tampon would be nice. However, if you're not my friend acting out of loyalty and letting me know that you think I've chosen wrong when it comes to a dating partner, fuck you and your halfassed shallow notions of "up to par". There should not be a motherfucking *rule* to mock other women for *anything*.
38) The “emergency phone call” is completely acceptable to prevent any further boredom.
... what?
39) The woman who approaches a group of guys doesn’t necessarily get the first pick.
... ... what?! I think I'm glad I'm not in the "singles scene".
40) Chicks before dicks, unless that dick is someone you are committed to, like a husband/fiancé.
See #36.
41) You should not date a man who takes longer to get ready than you do.
I don't think I would either, but I think this list is on serious crack.
42) If you come together, you leave together. Sometimes. You’re an adult, you don’t always have to travel in packs.
If you come together, you'd better make sure that everybody has a ride home if you're not leaving together.
43) Don’t be lazy. If a guy doesn’t call you first, don’t be a pussy and call him.
Ugh, who uses the phone anymore? Also, doesn't this contradict the next one?
44) Chances are you aren’t worth making a man work to get your attention. Do some work of your own.
This seems to have embedded the assumption that women are supposed to be the objects of pursuit, and also, that any man doing the pursuing is automatically worthwhile. I don't agree with either of these premises.
45) Women do not date a friend’s ex-boyfriend unless SHE dumped HIM. Then he’s fair game.
If a friend's ex-boyfriend is ex-, there's probably a reason. A cooling-off-period while everybody winds down from the relationship is probably a good plan. Then there's the question of whether a potential relationship with him is worth the can of drama it may open up. (Probably not.)
46) You can’t gauge how a man will treat you by how he treats his mom. What if she was a crack whore?
And what if she wasn't? You can still tell a lot by how he interacts with other people.
47) No woman shall be “friends with benefits” period. It just fucks up your life.
Wait, wasn't #38 about a booty call, or did I read that wrong? Consistency, woman.
48) If a man appears sexy, caring, and smart, don’t assume that he’ll “drop the act” in a couple days. That kinda thinking is what leads you into bad relationships.
If a man appears sexy, caring, and smart, don't assume he *is* either. Making assumptions keeps you in bad relationships.
49) Not all men are dogs. Geez.
Not all women are cats.
50) Don’t think you can change a man, unless he’s wearing diapers.
You can, however, insist that he change his shirt, and wash it.
51) Be fair.
Being "fair" got me into some pretty gnarly trouble. Sometimes it's overrated.
52) If a woman doesn’t remember it, it happened. Exploit that fact.
Wait, what? Is there a word or two missing? It involves "exploit", though, so I'm going to assume it's a black-hat relationship trick.
53) Never let a man come between you and a friend.
He should always be in one or the other of you. And use condoms, please, unless you're intending to get that closely bonded.
54) It is ok to make a sandwich for a man if 1) he says please 2) you are already in the kitchen and are not going out of your way 3) there is something in it for you. Otherwise don’t do it.
Regarding #3 there, I'm hoping he returns the favor.
55) Geez, crying’s okay.
Sure is!
56) Crack kills and is not sexy whatsoever. No one wants to see ass cleavage.
We sure don't!
57) Short shorts are unacceptable. Ass cheek exposure is imminent. And no one needs to see that, geez. Keep that behind closed doors.
This was covered in #56. Also, Man-Faye.
58) When your friend picks up a hot guy, don’t try to take him away. And don’t dismiss the ugly friend just because he’s “ugly.” That hot guy might be abusive or a rapist or something.
... you people please get away from me and out of my gender. ktxhbai.
59) No woman should purposely let her thong hang out to attract attention. That’s slutty.
See: Man-Faye.
60) If two or more girls arrived at a party by a single car, and the driving female is hooking up with a guy, it is the responsibility of the other female hooking up to take her friends home BEFORE being slutty and hooking up with that random guy.
Grammar aside, this makes sense.
61) Any man answering "Who was that on the phone?" with "Nobody" shouldn’t expect that to be the end of the conversation.
Nor should she expect it to be the end of the conversation when she pulls the same stunt.
61) A man should never let a woman walk anywhere alone after 11pm.
Even if she's better-armed?
62) If women may joke with each other about being skanks and whores, men can too. Don’t be sexist.
Don't the gay scene-boys already joke about being skanks and whores amongst themselves? I totally agree that heterosexual men who sleep around a lot should start coming to terms with this.
63) There shall be LOTS of fat jokes between women and their friends.
That's great. Expect me to not be either a woman or your friend, then. Also, see #37.
64) Condoms aren’t necessarily the man's thing to deal with. Be an adult and go get them!
Check.
65) You CAN do things for yourself.
Check.
66) Once a cheater always a cheater.
Often enough, yes.
67) If a guy is carrying a "man-bag", this is a purse and, well is just out of the question.
... these "laws" are just out of the question.
1) Thou shall never cater to a man’s every single need. We are not slaves.
Check. He's not a slave either, though. And if it genuinely pleases you to fill the needs of a partner, knock yourself out, but it had better be a nice and healthy partnership where your needs are getting filled too.
2) Women may not drive on a date, unless the man doesn’t have a car.
Bullshit. However, unless transportation is dreadfully impractical, it is nice to have one party pick the other up. The person organizing the event is typically responsible for the transportation. And in the US dating world, that's ... typically the man. Yay.
3) Chocolate is not a cure-all for your problems.
Check.
4) Ben and Jerry’s can’t fix problems, either.
Check.
5) Just because you’re in a relationship, doesn’t mean the man is committed.
Check, omg. And just because he wants to be in a relationship with you does not mean you should commit yourself.
6) Cosmo = fun to read, but not necessary.
Check. Though I'll give it a pass on the "fun to read" sometimes.
7) Bad breath = no tongue.
Check.
8) Pink is NOT a necessity. In fact, pink sucks.
Not necessary, but sometimes fun.
9) Glitter is okay in extreme moderation. Rhinestones and sequins are SERIOUSLY overdoing it.
You have to be able to carry it off, or you'll look like a drag queen.
10) You don’t have to do your hair or makeup every day.
Check. Basic-self care is necessary. A fancy hairstyle and makeup are not. (I don't count stuff like sunscreen and lip balm as "makeup", because that's in the basic self-care department. Cracked lips are not made of win.
11) A hoodie, sweatpants, and pony-tail are completely acceptable EVERY DAY.
Check. Your workplace's dress code may disagree, obviously, but your house doesn't have a dress code.
12) It’s nice for men to open doors for you, but you have arms. You can’t expect men to do everything for you. No wonder some men think women are subservient . . . it’s because most women want everything done for them.
I don't follow the logic here, but yes, you have the right and the responsibility to take care of yourself. If you defer to someone else, they may think that they have a right to dictate your actions or opinions if it happens too much. If you want someone to do things for you all the time, they may claim that means you owe them.
13) Don’t lie to a friend about how she looks in a new outfit.
That doesn't mean telling her "Your taste sucks", but it does mean saying, "I'm sorry, that doesn't flatter you, and I would recommend against wearing it in public. Ever."
14) Confidence is sexy.
Yes.
15) A skirt’s too short if you can’t bend over without showing way too much. And leggings are NOT acceptable to wear in public. No one wants to see that much of your body.
I'm not going to argue on the skirt issue, but I'd say that leggings are athletic wear, and should be kept to that.
16) PMS is NOT an excuse to be bitchy. You can still be nice during that time of the month, jeez.
If you can't be nice during PMS, you should either see your doctor if there's genuinely no reason other than PMS for you to be snapping, or you should address the issues that are bothering you while you're PMSing, because I guarantee you that they're bothering you when you're not PMSing, just at a lower level.
17) Singing in your car is completely acceptable.
And at home, and a whole lot of other places. The world needs more music.
18) Women don’t always get the last word in an argument, unless they really wanna piss someone off.
...?
19) Thou shall date any man you please, regardless of age.
(You and he should both be legal, for crying the heck out loud.)
20) Don’t overpack for anything like most women do.
...This generalization makes me sneeze. But if those around you say you're overpacking, you probably are.
21) Life is not about trying to beat men at everything.
... This also makes me sneeze. Life is about doing your own personal best in fields that matter to you, and fuck 'em if they say that women don't belong there. (Er. The men's bathroom is probably off-limits.)
22) Playing hard to get is discouraging to men. If you like them, let them know it and don’t make it hard on them.
Playing hard-to-get screws things up for women who are genuinely not interested in a guy. If you like them, acknowledge it, set sane boundaries, don't let them push you farther then you're willing to go, and re-negotiate if things change. Extending false hope when you're really not interested also screws things up for people. Stop it.
23) Know your limit when drinking alcohol.
Check. Experiment with your limits in private (with good friends) before drinking in public.
24) Women shall not chew tobacco.
Men shall not either. Ew.
25) When drunk, it’s not okay to have sex with someone if you don’t at least know some basics about them. Like their name, for starters. The old “how do I spell your name” trick to find out their name is NOT acceptable.
That goes for men too. And actually, it helps when you're not drunk too.
26) Never lower your standards or compromise yourself to please others. EVER.
Check. Although you should have a handle on what realistic standards are, and if your standards are unrealistic, I don't want to hear you whining if they're not being met. Also, meeting things like a workplace dress code had better not be "compromising yourself", because what you wear had better not be so vital to who you are that you cannot wear something else without being "compromised".
27) Always have a spare tampon. You or a friend may need it.
Check. Spare painkillers don't hurt either.
28) Size REALLY doesn’t matter, it’s all in how you use it.
And your tongue, and your hands, and whatever handy toys you may happen to have lying around.
29) Shopping is NOT a valid excuse for frivolous spending of yours or your boyfriend’s/spouse’s money. Seriously, get over your “addiction” and learn to be smart about your money. No wonder men think we’re high-maintenance and materialistic.
...ok, I'm glad I don't live in the same social group as the person who wrote these.
30) Never date a guy who wears girl pants.
Oh, fuck that. However, dating a guy whose fashion sense appalls you and makes you want to run screaming is really not a good plan.
31) Going to the bathroom is NOT an acceptable way to ditch a bad date.
To regroup and strategize during, yes. To abandon the date, no. Have an exit strategy in mind, let him know that this really isn't working out, and then ditch. Sends a clearer message, especially if he's being a dick. If you're worried about him making a scene, get someone to walk out with you.
32) Laugh at another woman with TP stuck to her shoe. You don’t have to tell them about it. They are adults and can check their feet before leaving.
Don't worry, we won't tell you when your bra strap is showing or your fly is unzipped either. christ. Letting someone else wander around looking stupid isn't necessarily your personal responsibility to fix, but it helps you be a worthwhile human if you let them know.
33) You CAN date someone with no car.
You can.
34) What happens on girls night is fair game to tell others if it was funny/humiliating in any way. Share the wealth.
If you're a backstabbing baggage who tells other people about stuff that happened in private that they wouldn't want shared, be prepared for others to return the favor to you. Man or woman. However, select bits of private events are fun to share, provided that sharing it wouldn't piss off anyone present.
35) You don’t have to redecorate your place every five minutes. And if you live with a guy, don’t make the place too feminine or you deserve to be slapped.
... ?! Look, decorating is fun, but it's possible to go overboard, and decorating is not a necessity. If it's not livable, you don't deserve to be slapped, but no one may want to actually live with you. Show some courtesy.
36) Friends come before guys, unless you’re married/engaged/something of that sort.
Friends of any gender come before potential dating partners of any gender. A serious, long-term relationship should be sufficient to trump many friendship priorities -- if it's not, you should really reconsider.
37) If a woman dates a man who is “not up to par,” laugh at her mistake.
OK, look. You don't owe me any special loyalty because we share a gender, although sympathy and a tampon would be nice. However, if you're not my friend acting out of loyalty and letting me know that you think I've chosen wrong when it comes to a dating partner, fuck you and your halfassed shallow notions of "up to par". There should not be a motherfucking *rule* to mock other women for *anything*.
38) The “emergency phone call” is completely acceptable to prevent any further boredom.
... what?
39) The woman who approaches a group of guys doesn’t necessarily get the first pick.
... ... what?! I think I'm glad I'm not in the "singles scene".
40) Chicks before dicks, unless that dick is someone you are committed to, like a husband/fiancé.
See #36.
41) You should not date a man who takes longer to get ready than you do.
I don't think I would either, but I think this list is on serious crack.
42) If you come together, you leave together. Sometimes. You’re an adult, you don’t always have to travel in packs.
If you come together, you'd better make sure that everybody has a ride home if you're not leaving together.
43) Don’t be lazy. If a guy doesn’t call you first, don’t be a pussy and call him.
Ugh, who uses the phone anymore? Also, doesn't this contradict the next one?
44) Chances are you aren’t worth making a man work to get your attention. Do some work of your own.
This seems to have embedded the assumption that women are supposed to be the objects of pursuit, and also, that any man doing the pursuing is automatically worthwhile. I don't agree with either of these premises.
45) Women do not date a friend’s ex-boyfriend unless SHE dumped HIM. Then he’s fair game.
If a friend's ex-boyfriend is ex-, there's probably a reason. A cooling-off-period while everybody winds down from the relationship is probably a good plan. Then there's the question of whether a potential relationship with him is worth the can of drama it may open up. (Probably not.)
46) You can’t gauge how a man will treat you by how he treats his mom. What if she was a crack whore?
And what if she wasn't? You can still tell a lot by how he interacts with other people.
47) No woman shall be “friends with benefits” period. It just fucks up your life.
Wait, wasn't #38 about a booty call, or did I read that wrong? Consistency, woman.
48) If a man appears sexy, caring, and smart, don’t assume that he’ll “drop the act” in a couple days. That kinda thinking is what leads you into bad relationships.
If a man appears sexy, caring, and smart, don't assume he *is* either. Making assumptions keeps you in bad relationships.
49) Not all men are dogs. Geez.
Not all women are cats.
50) Don’t think you can change a man, unless he’s wearing diapers.
You can, however, insist that he change his shirt, and wash it.
51) Be fair.
Being "fair" got me into some pretty gnarly trouble. Sometimes it's overrated.
52) If a woman doesn’t remember it, it happened. Exploit that fact.
Wait, what? Is there a word or two missing? It involves "exploit", though, so I'm going to assume it's a black-hat relationship trick.
53) Never let a man come between you and a friend.
He should always be in one or the other of you. And use condoms, please, unless you're intending to get that closely bonded.
54) It is ok to make a sandwich for a man if 1) he says please 2) you are already in the kitchen and are not going out of your way 3) there is something in it for you. Otherwise don’t do it.
Regarding #3 there, I'm hoping he returns the favor.
55) Geez, crying’s okay.
Sure is!
56) Crack kills and is not sexy whatsoever. No one wants to see ass cleavage.
We sure don't!
57) Short shorts are unacceptable. Ass cheek exposure is imminent. And no one needs to see that, geez. Keep that behind closed doors.
This was covered in #56. Also, Man-Faye.
58) When your friend picks up a hot guy, don’t try to take him away. And don’t dismiss the ugly friend just because he’s “ugly.” That hot guy might be abusive or a rapist or something.
... you people please get away from me and out of my gender. ktxhbai.
59) No woman should purposely let her thong hang out to attract attention. That’s slutty.
See: Man-Faye.
60) If two or more girls arrived at a party by a single car, and the driving female is hooking up with a guy, it is the responsibility of the other female hooking up to take her friends home BEFORE being slutty and hooking up with that random guy.
Grammar aside, this makes sense.
61) Any man answering "Who was that on the phone?" with "Nobody" shouldn’t expect that to be the end of the conversation.
Nor should she expect it to be the end of the conversation when she pulls the same stunt.
61) A man should never let a woman walk anywhere alone after 11pm.
Even if she's better-armed?
62) If women may joke with each other about being skanks and whores, men can too. Don’t be sexist.
Don't the gay scene-boys already joke about being skanks and whores amongst themselves? I totally agree that heterosexual men who sleep around a lot should start coming to terms with this.
63) There shall be LOTS of fat jokes between women and their friends.
That's great. Expect me to not be either a woman or your friend, then. Also, see #37.
64) Condoms aren’t necessarily the man's thing to deal with. Be an adult and go get them!
Check.
65) You CAN do things for yourself.
Check.
66) Once a cheater always a cheater.
Often enough, yes.
67) If a guy is carrying a "man-bag", this is a purse and, well is just out of the question.
... these "laws" are just out of the question.
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That is actually very important.
This list is on crack, your commentary is much of the funny, and the above made me stop and think. Um. Thanks.
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Strangely enough, when I ran out of things that were really bugging me but I was too oversocialized to crab about the other 25 days, I was still touchy but a whole lot less actively psychotic.
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Why do I even know this stuff???
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There is a local fan I am always having emergencies to avoid because it would just not do to tell her in public (where I always run into her) that I would rather eat salted razorblades than spend a moment longer than necessary with her and her skank-ass friends. We share a great many interests but absolutely no ethics. Fortunately she is very honesty-based so I figured that out real quick after she told me how one of her friends uses her kid to shoplift.
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Re: #32
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And that's packing light.
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I prefer men who don't feel a need to prove their manhood. Besides, some of my partners have been bi. I have no problem with a man who wears women's pants or carries a bag. For that matter, most of the men I know have worn a dress or a skirt at some point.
These authors can take their rigid sex roles and homophobia/biphobia and enjoy the fruits of their relationships. Given some of their assumptions, they sound awful.
On a side note, dating exes is fine in my social circle. The group has gotten rather incestuous. My most recent two relationships were both exes of some of my friends. Besides, I'm on good terms with both of my exes, and would be fine with a friend dating either of them if it worked out well. It's just not a problem in my social group.
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Rigid sex roles just do not do it for me.
I think the dating dynamic is different if everyone involved is friends first and foremost, and dating occurs, rather than the datee being a newcomer to the social group and really not friends with anyone.